????但就沃爾瑪而言，政府為沃爾瑪?shù)褪杖雴T工提供的補(bǔ)貼讓創(chuàng)始人們變得更賦富裕了。你認(rèn)為政府該怎么做？

????第一步是雙方要認(rèn)清當(dāng)前的狀況及原因所在。我曾經(jīng)是奧巴馬的積極支持者。但他一展開(kāi)競(jìng)選就開(kāi)始指責(zé)富人。他說(shuō)，億萬(wàn)富翁和百萬(wàn)富翁們正在操縱整個(gè)體系，拿走所有的錢。這馬上就把原本可以幫助（改善現(xiàn)狀）的人們推到了對(duì)立面。我不是說(shuō)“有權(quán)者不會(huì)為私利而改變體系”，我要說(shuō)的是它并不是不平等的根源。

????但具體來(lái)說(shuō)，需要進(jìn)行什么改變？

????我們需要改變美國(guó)企業(yè)界的想法。全球化以及擔(dān)心中國(guó)人搶飯碗的憂慮已經(jīng)將“股東價(jià)值”變成了經(jīng)營(yíng)一家公司的全部和終極目標(biāo)，深深地烙在了大多數(shù)CEO的DNA中。我們需要轉(zhuǎn)變，公司領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人需要在股東、客戶和員工間尋找平衡。我猜這是一場(chǎng)道德革命。

????如果企業(yè)不這么做，政府可以努力促進(jìn)增長(zhǎng)，給工薪階層和中產(chǎn)階級(jí)更好的機(jī)會(huì)。需要進(jìn)行正確的結(jié)構(gòu)性調(diào)整。首先，我們需要關(guān)注迫在眉睫的事情。為長(zhǎng)期預(yù)算問(wèn)題哪怕支付一筆定金，這非常重要。解決社保體系的問(wèn)題應(yīng)是當(dāng)務(wù)之急。當(dāng)然，我們應(yīng)該按經(jīng)濟(jì)狀況審查。因此，富人們不應(yīng)獲得社會(huì)保障，即便他們?yōu)榇诉M(jìn)行了支付。一旦我們證明我們能做成什么，信心就會(huì)提升。

????第二，政府需要幫助人們就業(yè)。這里有一個(gè)讓人難過(guò)的統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)據(jù)：25-55歲的美國(guó)男性有9%的人在拿傷殘補(bǔ)貼，高于20年前的2%-3%。這些人當(dāng)然是傷殘者。但很多人就是長(zhǎng)期失業(yè)。我們有迷惘的一代，就像是歷史上大蕭條時(shí)期的無(wú)業(yè)游民。這些人從沒(méi)有工作，從未結(jié)婚，從來(lái)沒(méi)有理由攢錢。這是一件非常可怕和令人沮喪的事情。促進(jìn)就業(yè)的最佳方式是讓企業(yè)界相信你是支持他們的。因此，指責(zé)是一種非常糟糕的政策。我們需要釋放被壓抑的資本和創(chuàng)造力。

????第三，讓我們來(lái)看看貨幣政策，QE3。這項(xiàng)政策的本意是通過(guò)推高資產(chǎn)價(jià)格來(lái)刺激經(jīng)濟(jì)。但擁有資產(chǎn)的正是富人。曼哈頓是一個(gè)典型的例子。曼哈頓公寓、漢普頓的別墅以及股票價(jià)格都出現(xiàn)了上漲。我們都變得更有錢了！我們需要認(rèn)識(shí)到這一點(diǎn)。或許，美聯(lián)儲(chǔ)(Fed)應(yīng)當(dāng)將政策關(guān)注點(diǎn)擴(kuò)大至中小企業(yè)直接貸款，而不是永遠(yuǎn)只有量化寬松。

????最后，美國(guó)政府需要規(guī)范最低工資。拿最低工資的人們應(yīng)該無(wú)需政府補(bǔ)貼。一個(gè)更詳盡的最低工資體系會(huì)把責(zé)任交回企業(yè)。這也是一種更有尊嚴(yán)的收入再分配方式。我相信那些沃爾瑪員工寧可每年從公司獲得額外的2,500美元，也不愿接受政府的救濟(jì)。

????稅收呢？既然像你這樣的有錢人變得更有錢了，難道你不認(rèn)為稅收能幫助實(shí)現(xiàn)財(cái)富再分配嗎？換言之，下調(diào)資本所得稅稅率讓有錢人獲益，與提供政府補(bǔ)貼讓沃爾瑪獲益，兩者有什么不同？

????稅收當(dāng)然有一定作用。我認(rèn)識(shí)的大多數(shù)有錢人都不介意財(cái)富再分配，前提是得讓他們相信，這些財(cái)富不會(huì)被浪費(fèi)。政府的表現(xiàn)從來(lái)沒(méi)有證明它是GDP的好管家。在大多數(shù)城市，我們的公共教育體系就是個(gè)大敗筆。對(duì)政府項(xiàng)目的需求和項(xiàng)目實(shí)際執(zhí)行之間脫節(jié)，這個(gè)體系兩級(jí)分化，想做什么事都做不成。我希望我能有一個(gè)答案。政治僵局是復(fù)蘇不溫不火的原因之一。一旦有了信心，未來(lái)人們就會(huì)開(kāi)始借錢和投資。（財(cái)富中文網(wǎng)）

????譯者：早稻米

????

????So, in the case of Wal-Mart, government subsidies of the poor employees make the founders even richer. What do you think that the government should do?

????The first step is for both sides to recognize what is happening and why. I was a big Obama supporter, yet the moment he gets on the campaign trail he blames the rich. He says billionaires and millionaires are rigging the system to take all the money. That immediately puts the people you need to help [the situation] on the defensive. I am not saying that people in power don't tweak things to their advantage' what I am saying is that is not the root cause of the inequity.

????But, specifically, what changes need to be made?

????We need a change of thinking in corporate America. Globalization and the fear of having your lunch eaten by the Chinese has made "shareholder value" the be-all and end of running a company. It is in the DNA of most of our CEOs. We need a shift where company leaders look at a balance between shareholders, customers, and employees. I guess that is a moral revolution.

????Short of that, the government can do things both to promote growth and to give the working and middle class a better shot. The right structural changes need to be made. First, we need to look at the things that are overhanging us. Making even a down payment on our long term budget problems is key. Fixing the social security system should be a top priority. And, of course, we should means test. So rich people shouldn't get social security, even though they paid into it. Once we show we can get something done, confidence will pick up.

????Second, the government needs to help get people employed. Here's a sad statistic: 9% of 25-55 year old males are on disability, up from 2%-3% from 20 years ago. Of course there are people on the list that are disabled. But many are just chronically unemployed. We have a whole lost generation. It's not unlike the hobos during the depression era. These men never got jobs; never got married; never have a reason to build a nest egg. That's the really scary and depressing thing. The best way to spur employment is to get the business community to believe you're on their side. It's why blaming is such bad policy. We need to unleash the pent up capital and creativity.

????Third, take a look at monetary policy, QE3. This was meant to stimulate the economy by driving asset prices up. But it's the rich people who own the assets. Manhattan is a perfect example. Manhattan apartments, Hamptons houses, stock prices have all gone higher. We've all gotten richer! We need to recognize it. Maybe the Fed should expand its mandate to direct lending to small and medium-size companies as opposed to QE forever.

????Finally, the government needs to regulate minimum wage. An employee making minimum wage should not have to be subsidized by the government to live. A more comprehensive minimum wage system puts the responsibility back onto the businesses. It's also a more dignified way at redistribution. I am sure those Wal-Mart employees would rather have that extra $2,500 a year come from their company as opposed to a government handout.

????What about taxes? Since the rich, like you, have gotten richer, don't you think redistribution of wealth through taxes could help? Or put another way, how is a lower tax rate on capital gains, which essentially helps the rich, not like a government subsidy similar to the one Wal-Mart receives?

????Taxes play a role for sure. Most wealthy people I know wouldn't mind redistribution if they believed it wouldn't be wasted. Government hasn't shown that it hasn't been a good steward of GDP. In most cities our public school system is a debacle. This idea -- the disconnect between the need for government programs and the true implantation of them -- has caused a polarized system that throws a wet blanket over anything you want to get done. I wish I had an answer. Political gridlock is one of the reasons for the muted recovery. Once you have confidence, people start borrowing money and investing in the future.